In response to this…
My ex-boyfriend once told me that Mother Theresa was not in Heaven. I disagreed with him, but given how I translated the Bible, he was correct. You see, Mother Theresa believed that because she was baptized, she would go to Heaven. I believed that you must publicly announce that Jesus is your Lord. Did Mother Theresa publicly announce that Jesus was her Lord? Of course she did. And I was baptized. But neither was done in order to earn our way to Heaven. Both actions were done in obedience to the Lord after already having earned our respective “tickets through the gates”.
Why do I point this out? Because I have learned through much studying that my way is not the only way. If I know all the answers to Christianity and self-appoint myself as such, then aren’t I playing God, rather than simply doing as God has asked of me? This point was brought to my attention in the book “A New Earth.” The author uses quotes from different doctrine, including the Bible, and never once says anything negative about any of the respective religions. He simply explains how to apply this sense of “being” to your particular religion in order to fully grasp what God wants for you. In order to allow for peoples faults and love them in spite of them. Isn’t this the main point Jesus tries to drive home over and over and over in the Bible, to put ourselves aside and simply love?
Just recently there was uproar in our church over infidelity and people were quick to forget that we are instructed to be Christ-like, which is, to mirror Jesus, and instead chose sides and forgot to love the perpetrator. This book gave me the tools to remember what I believe and who I truly am in order to allow for faults and love both sides. Did the book offend me because there was Hindu and Buddhist doctrine in it? No. What it did was teach me that I am not God and I am not in control of the situation. I must simply “be in the moment” and do as God has asked of me, which is to love.
I read a book a while back that opened my eyes to the fact that it sometimes takes tools from other religions to reach a closer relationship to who I believe is God. The book was called “Eat Pray Love.” In it, the woman goes off to India to study in an Ashram. She learns the Hindu art of meditation, which in turn allows her to simply “be.” During her time at the Ashram she is forced to be silent for a large part of each day. She is a very social being and silent meditation proves difficult for her. When she finally learns to simply “be,” she has the most awe-inspiring moment with God.
In our Christian religion, we are told to pray. This should be easy enough, but being the busy 21st century beings we are, our phones start ringing, our Blackberries flash that red light that begs for a response, the alarm screams at us to pick up the kids. We, for the most part, do not know how to stay still. The Hindu religion teaches the art of staying still. It’s called meditation and it could really be beneficial for us Christians to learn.
So do I shun the Hindus because they are not Christians, or do I learn from them and love them, though I may not agree with who they worship as god? Doesn’t Jesus want me to love them in spite of what I may see as their faults, as they were created in His image? That is what Mother Theresa did. She lived for many years in India and loved every single one of the people there, regardless of their religion. I will strive to not play God and just simply “be in the moment” and love.
And as for Oprah, as a self-professed Christian, wouldn’t she be considered a good model for Christianity in her sincerity towards all beings? And if, by chance she should slip up, do we allow for her faults, or do we hang her out to dry? I believe we should do as Jesus instructs us to and love her too.
14 comments:
I agree we need to love Oprah regardless of where she is at on her spiritual journey. And thank God she is at least on a spiritual journey. I don't think our response to Oprah in "the video" is completely appropriate. However, based on beliefs that she has expressed for several years now, I find it difficult to believe she is a Christ-follower.
I also agree with the idea of loving other religions and learning from other religions. There are practices and disciplines of other cultures and faiths that can be adapted to enhance my own. However, they need to always stay in line with the core truths of what I believe.
The part that I am confused by is when you say "my way is not the only way." Not the only option, sure. But as a Christ-follower I can't get around the truth that there is only one God, he came to earth in the man of Jesus Christ, and the only way to truly know God is through the man of Jesus Christ. As much as I myself have wanted this not to be the case at times, it always comes down to this for me: if another way were adequate, why send Christ to suffer such a brutal death on the cross in the first place.
I love your heart to love others. That's definitely a place that many of us as Christians fall short. It's that whole human thing. It gets messy. And we don't have all the answers to Christianity. I would even argue that on this side of heaven, Christianity doesn't have all the answers. But it has enough to get us through, and I believe it is pretty clear on the importance of knowing Christ and Him crucified.
Thanks for provoking thought Jen! Good conversation. I look forward to hearing what others have to add to the conversation.
Wow, where do I start…
Truth, truth is all you need. Truth is all ‘we’ need. Biblical truth, the truth that is only found in God’s Word; Scripture. Eckhart Tolle’s books may be pleasing to read, especially if you are uncomfortable with feeling the full weight of the truth found in Scripture. I personally find my balance in this world through God’s Word – not the word of man (or woman in Oprah’s case).
Let’s see: Is Mother Theresa in heaven? Only God knows for sure. How do you know what Mother Theresa did about her relationship to Jesus? Did she confess that Jesus is Lord? Scripture tells us in Acts 2:21, “And it shall be, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. “ Romans 10:9-13 “that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever Believes in Him will not be disappointed.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for “whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.” We don’t earn our respective “tickets through the gates”. Our entrance into the kingdom is freely given . 1 Corinthians 2:12-13, Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, 13which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.
Your way is not the only way – you’re right! But God’s way is the only way. No one knows all the answers to Christianity – but through prayer and petition you can be lead to make wise decisions. Scripture says, “Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehensions, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.” (Ephesians 4:6-7).
Yes, Jesus tell us to love –As Christ followers, we must love, love ourselves, love our enemies, love each other but we must also hold each other accountable to the truth that is found in the Bible. And in that truth is the fact that as Christ followers we are to be held to a higher standard. We know better and as such we are to act accordingly. You mention the recent infidelity at church – and state that people were quick to forget that we are instructed to be Christ like and chose sides and forgot to love the perpetrator. While that might be the case for some, that is not the case for those that truly follow the Biblical teachings from scripture.
In this particular circumstance, the people involved are believers (the same situation would be handled differently for non-believers) and therefore with scripture is our guide; Matthew 18: 15-17; “If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.16 But if he does not listen to you take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector (non-believer). ” This was done in this specific case – no repentance came, next step; 1 Corinthians 5:2 “…so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst”. Going on in verse 5; “I have decided to deliver such a one to satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.”
This is quite different from how a non-believer should be treated regarding their sin. The discipline in scripture is done to bring one to repentance, to accept responsibility for their transgression and once again return to the body of believers. That is the ultimate goal – and who knows, we may be able to enjoy the reconciliation of those who have transgressed.
1 John 3:9-11 says, “9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother. 11This is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another.”
That is the love that Jesus talks about. Love them back by keeping to His word. Many times I hear people who don’t like the discipline the Lord provides saying things like “well that doesn’t feel right” or “that doesn’t sound loving”. Basically leading with their own understanding or leading with their heart and not God’s word. If we lead with our hearts we will not do what is right – Matthew 15:18-20 “But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders. 20 These are the things which defile the man;”
In respect to Love, we must follow scripture again that love is commanded in John 13:33-34, A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” So clearly we must love each other – but taking wisdom out of love – removing the truth because it doesn’t feel right is wrong.
Yes, Jesus is Love, God is Love – but we are clearly told that God disciplines those he loves.
“For whom the Lord loves He reproves, Even as a father corrects the son in whom he delights. How blessed is the man who finds wisdom and the man who gains understanding” Proverbs 2:12-13
Jesus himself said, “whoever causes one of these little ones (referring to Christians becoming like children) who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea” Matthew 18:6 parenthesis added. Doesn’t feel like love to me – yet it is.
Now, as for Oprah and any other person professing to be a Christian – if you do not keep to the doctrines set forth in scripture, you really aren’t a Christian. Mathew 7:21-23, “Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!” The will of the Father can only be accomplished through study and application of His Word – not the application of the thoughts of Ekhart Tolle, Gurus from India, Buddah, Mohammed or any other ‘spiritualist’, only through the application of the Word of God himself!
Tools from other religions may be a help – but actually reading and applying the Word of God will be much more fulfilling and applicable to any circumstance.
My caution is to not avoid the Jesus’ teaching, God’s Word because something else is more palatable. “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?” Matthew 7:15-17
“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it” Matthew 7:13-14.
Jenn, I am with you on loving others. Jesus says in John 13:33-34, “34A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." 1 John 4:7-8 says “7Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.”
So we are clearly called to love.
And how does Scripture define love? 1 John 3:16 says, “This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us.”
Jesus displayed the ultimate in love when He died to reconcile us to God.
1 John 5:1-3 says, “1Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. 2This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. 3This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,”
So the Bible clearly tells us to love each other, that Jesus is our example of love, that all who love God love Jesus as well, and we demonstrate love by carrying out the commands given in Scripture. He also says we are to stop sinning if we are truly children of God.
1 John 3:9-11 says, “9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother. 11This is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another.”
I’m not sure what you meant by “your way is not the only way”. The very heart of Christianity lies in the fact that Jesus is the only way. That’s not my opinion, or me “playing God”, it’s what Jesus himself said. John 14:6 says, “Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
I know the idea of “one way to God” sounds harsh and not very tolerant. Unfortunately the world is very hostile to the gospel of Christ. Yes other religions do contain within them nuggets of truth or things we can learn, but we MUST be very careful when going to these extra-Biblical sources. Peter said it best in 2 Peter 2:16 concerning the words of Paul, “15Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
17Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position. 18But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”
I know this next passage is long, but it speaks EXACTLY to the “wisdom of the world” and those who consider themselves enlightened in spiritual matters.
1 Corinthians 1:18-31. “18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written:
"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."[c]
20Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.
26Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29so that no one may boast before him. 30It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."
The world tries to make sense of the Gospel and in trying to reconcile it to their own thoughts and opinions, they distort it. Of them, Paul says in 2 Timothy 3:5, “having a form of godliness but denying its power. HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM.” This sounds harsh, doesn’t it? Have nothing to do with them. They are NOT of God. They are NOT telling the truth.
Jesus himself describes those who are “spiritual” but not following His Truth in Mathew 7:21-23, “"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'”
Ouch! That’s harsh, Jesus!
I’m sure I have OVERWHELMED you with Scripture, and that is my point. Please be careful when turning to any source outside of Scripture. As Christ-followers, it is our foundation, it is TRUTH. Jesus IS TRUTH! John 14:6, “Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
So, yes, love others, even with their faults. We must love others, but judge EVERYTHING against Scripture. Our own opinions, thoughts, and feelings are NOT to be our standard. We are not to go along with what sounds good or looks good. We are to judge ideas according to Scripture! John 7:24, “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment." (You won’t hear that verse from the “do not judge” crowd.)
This is why it appeared to you that so many were taking sides and forgetting to “love the perpetrator”. Please read 1 Corinthians 5 to see how we as Christians are instructed to deal with an unrepentant sinner, calling themselves a Christ-follower. I’ll warn you. It’s harsh! I won’t quote it all here, but it definitely doesn’t sound very loving… unless you mean “tough love”. We are to call sin, “sin” – not sugar-coat it with “it’s not God’s best”. It’s sin, it’s serious, and its end result is eternal separation from God! (James 1:14-15) The most loving thing you can tell a person, calling themselves a Christian and continuing to sin, is that they are on a path to destruction. It WILL end in spiritual death.
So we love, but as Christians, we are sent “out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.” (Matthew 10:16)
Sorry this is so long. I got a little excited when I started reading the Word of God…
For the most part, I will leave these comments for the readers to digest on their own, but there is one comment that does not sit well with me. Now I understand that I just wrote about accepting peoples faults as I perceive them to be, but the comment written by Rick concerning people that do not keep with the doctrine not being Christians troubles me deeply. Wouldn’t those who proclaim to be Christians, but fall short of keeping with the doctrine be considered sinners? And is any one of us without sin?
This disagreement within the Christian community was a big part of the point of my post. Bobby, you brought up a line that I wrote, “my way is not the only way.” In writing this, I really did not go into enough detail obviously, but what I was trying to point out was that in the Christian community there is a separation due to the “my belief in exactly how you make it to Heaven is the only way” way of thinking. That is why I brought up Mother Theresa. She is a Catholic (who are also under the title of “Christian”), and as such believes that through water baptism she is saved from the depths of Hell. There are many different beliefs as to the exact action that needs to be initially taken in order to be considered a Christ-follower, and each believer can back up their belief with scripture. But if you’re doing “all of the above” that is stated in the Bible (i.e. confess with your mouth, be baptized with water, be baptized in the Holy Spirit) than is it really worth arguing about? I used to argue to the point of complete loss of love for the particular individual that the only way to God (the one God we all, as Christian believers, follow) was the way I interpreted as being the right way. Could I be willing to accept that I am not God and only He knows the exact order of events that will bring us into relationship with Him, or even if there is a certain event as important as Him simply reading your heart? I could, and for that reason I have learned to stop finding fault in others and simply love.
So in response to Ricks comment about who is and is not a Christian, I disagree with you, but will allow room for you to be just as right as me and love you in spite of our disagreement.
Thank you for putting the time into such a passionate topic! We can all learn so much from one another, can't we? :)
ah.. Jenn, that is the problem with today's society in general - when the Truth from God feels uncomfortable, or doesn't sit well we will hear "that's ok for you" or something similar to that but the Truth remains.
1John 2:3-6 says, "By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected, By this we know that we are in Him:"
1John2:15-16 says, "Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all this is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life is not from the Father, but is from the world.17 The world is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one hwo does the will of God lives forever."
All I was doing with that comment was stating what is written in God's word. Statements like, "I feel" or "I think" become unnecessary when the Word is applied to our lives. The statements, "God says", "Jesus commands" and "The Lord led" are much more powerful.
I'm not a 'bible thumper' but when life throws us serious questions the best place to turn for ALL the answers is God and God's Word. Not Oprah, Ekarht Tolle, Tom Cruise or Dr. Phil...
"Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also". 1John 2:22-23
"These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you." 1John 2:26.
I haven't read all the comments here don't have the time, but I did read your post in response to Beth's video. I'd just like to say right on!
I have so many Christian friends. So many people I love who are pained that I will not be joining them in the afterlife because of my inability to believe in their God.
I understand faith. What I don't understand is the a belief system that would hold itself above all others.
I cannot see the "words of God" without the editing of man. No manner of convincing will change that.
I believe that if there is a supreme being, a just and loving God, that entity would not allow a good person to suffer the tortures of Hell as described in the bible for all eternity just because they didn't believe in Jesus as their savior.
That, to me, would be worse than monstrous. Worse than any meglomanic from our history. God is not that being. Man may be. God. Never.
JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY- PERIOD.
i am quite surprised to hear your comments jenn, especially since you have been to india 2x (?)... intresting....
OK...I gotta come to Jenn's defense on this one. Maybe that last poster didn't mean to come off short, but it kinda did. Not cool.
Probably part of why it seemed that way was the anonymous part. Maybe you didn't mean to be, that's cool. Then just let us know who you are. But if not, if you're gonna criticize someone on their blog, at least have the cajones to sign your name.
Sorry. Anonymous posts drive me nuts. Especially when they are critical.
Anonymous:
Yes, I have been to India twice, but where does that fit in to the topic? I went there to love the people and serve them in a capacity I hope is pleasing to God, which also involved sharing Jesus with them. I do believe Jesus is the only way to God. How people go about forming that relationship with Jesus and publicly announcing it is no longer a determining factor for me as to whether you are a Christian...if you say you are in relationship with Jesus, awesome. I love you. If you say there is no God, we are in disagreement, but I love you too. It's simple. I am obeying Gods commands, spoken through Jesus in Matt 22:37-38. You are all my neighbors, including India, and I will love you all as I wish to be loved. Whole heartedly and without condition.
And to Toyfoto:
Thank you for jumping in and offering your thoughts. Though we may not agree, you are no less important to me. Oh, and I've always wanted to tell you, your pictures & blog rock!!!
And Bobby:
Dude, thanks for the love :)
Beliefs are important. Thanks for letting me voice mine, thanks for posing such a thoughtful question.
toyfoto,
I am glad you have friends concerned for your soul. They are loving you in the best way possible.
I just want to clear up a little misconception. God does not damn people to hell and to a tortuous eternity. We choose that. You see everything that is good, everything beautiful, everything loving, everything that is desirable - it all comes from God.
Hell is simply the absence of God. And when do not choose Him or His way, He very lovingly allows us to take our own path. Unfortunately a world absent of God, absent of love, absent of beauty, absent of goodness is hell.
He showed His love for us and His desire to be relationship with us in the most excruciating, sacrifical way He could. He sent His son to reconcile us to Him. Jesus death bridges the gap WE have created between us and a VERY loving God. If we reject that messenger, that gift, that sacrifice that same very loving God will let us go on our own path which leads to eternal separation from Him. Afterall, if you reject Jesus and the Father who sent him in the tiny 80 or so years you have on earth, why would you want to spend eternity with Him?
I beg you to consider the vision and version of God that you have created. The God who sent His son is more loving than any god you wish He would be. I hope you hear the heart of love I am writing this from. I, too, want you with me eternally.
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